Tag Archives: arrow

Most_least Voting(2)

Most-Least Voting – Questions raised – some of which were serious, some I suspect were “rabble-rousing”. I’ve edited to reduce snark and generally tried to give benefit of the doubt, even though I know some people really should just go out more……

Arrow’s Theorem only applies to generic voting. Fair results can be obtained if particulars are taken into account. When you only have a few candidates MLV is not what you’d go for. With a huge pool of eligible candidates, say 1000, all available for say 9 seats, then Cumulative vote tallying is ideal.

Reference please.

“Also something polsci experts often fail to consider is degree of polarization. You don’t have to have just “like” vs “dislike”, you can have a Likert scale on degree of like/dislike, and use it to weight the votes, so that a polarizing candidate who is less polarizing than the other still has a chance to be ahead of the milquetoast centrist. I know, I know, requires fairly sophisticated voters, but worth a shot some time in experimental research trials.”

Likert scaling assumes distances between each choice (answer option) are equal. Please provide references from the mathematical psychology literature showing this to be true. (I’ll save you time – there are none. My co-author was editor of the top journal –JMP – for almost 40 years and never encountered a study showing this. He is AAJ Marley.).  I could quote you amusing anecdotes like the fact traditional Chinese older people associate the character for number 4 with death so avoid it. Statisticians then spend yonks trying to work out if dips at number 4 are “real” or “due to cultural stuff”.  Please stop throwing up new terms like “likert” when it is merely expressing a phenomenon I discredited in my postings before.

San Francisco city government, supervisors, sheriff and district attorney are chosen by ranked choice voting. That, combined with district elections for supervisors, has resulted in a parade of ineffectual, sometimes dangerous, political mediocrities, a chaotic disaster, controlled by the Democratic County Central Committee. If a voter fails to choose three candidates, their vote is thrown out.

You say ranked choice choice voting – I’m not defending that – so your point is?

Some supervisors have been elected with less than 25% of the vote.

Choose from Hillary, Trump and any run of the mill US politician in the centre. Why does LESS THAN 25% “MEAN THEY ARE ILLEGITIMATE”?  – “Top” candidatees don’t matter under MLV if they also disgust a huge number of the rest of the population. This is NOT ranked voting (which YOU talk about). Please actually address my discussed voting system and don’t straw man.

It’s horses for course to get around Arrow. In other words, you select the most appropriate voting system for the size of the candidate pool and the seats being vied for.

I said your latter statement at the start. Why are you presenting this as a “new insight”? Arrow always said you make your moral judgments, based on “values” and the “system”, THEN you can choose the system that best achieves these. As to “get around Arrow”. Nope.

While it is an interesting fad, there is no real guarantee that rigging elections to favor centrists will get you better government. As it happens, I am a Libertarian. Some of my ill-advised fellow party members argue vociferously for ranked choice voting or the like. I attempt to point out to them that RCV tends to guarantee that my party will never win elections, but the RCV faithful will not listen.

Where did I say that MLV rigs elections in favour of centrists? I merely quoted an observation from the Dutch/Belgian researchers that centrists probably stand a better chance of being elected. If you have data showing that MLV disproportionately benefits centrists at the expense of others please quote it – PARTICULARLY in a multidimensional format (which even the continental Euroepan authors do not). Note I also said that in a MULTI-DIMENSIONAL world, the concept of a “centrist” is less meaningful. MLV could get you your libertarianism (in getting govt out of the bedroom). Please stop putting words into my mouth.

There’s a lot of talk about candidates and parties, but not a lot of talk about policy.

One way to create significant momentum to deal with global climate change is to place high taxes onto fossil fuels. As Illinois recently demonstrated, this is highly unpopular.

In either Ranked Choice or Most-Least systems, how do necessary but unpopular policies get enacted?

I’m not going to claim miracles. Just as under ANY other voting scheme, there must be a critical mass of people who “see the peril” and vote accordingly. MLV at least allows these people to “veto” candidates who totally dismiss the environmental issues. So it isn’t “the solution” but it may be “ a quicker solution.” One big benefit of MLV is that it is probably the system that gives the greatest “veto power” to any majority of the population whose candidate(s) didn’t make it into government. So in the UK, the strong environmental lobby crossing all the “progressive parties” who keep losing elections could start exercising real power via their “least” votes.